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Budapest Open Access Initiative: BOAI Forum Archive [BOAI] [Forum Home] [index] [prev] [next] [options] [help]boaiforum messages[BOAI] OA vs CC-BY-NOWFrom: Stevan Harnad <amsciforum AT gmail.com> --bcaec548a43934c44605191d739e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Jan Velterop <velterop AT gmail.com> ↵ wrote: > "This sort of insistence on One Special License is exactly what is > limiting the adoption of open access." > > Really? Any evidence? I'd welcome it if your definition of open access > found universal acceptance. Would be a great step forward. > > Jan Velterop > While the CC-BY-NOW (Libre OA) partisans keep insisting on having it all, now, thereby playing into the hands of Fools-Gold publishers whilst we still hardly even have Gratis OA (free access online), those who would be more than happy to have Gratis OA at long last are working to mandate it, and to test and optimize mandates for it. Evidence that insisting prematurely on more results in getting less is there, in the two published studies, for those who did not already see the obvious. Vincent-Lamarre, Philippe, Boivin, Jade, Gargouri, Yassine, Larivi=C3=A8re, Vincent and Harnad, Stevan (2014) Estimating Open Access Mandate Effectiveness: I. The MELIBEA Score. <http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/370203/> (Submitted) http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/370203/ Swan, Alma; Gargouri, Yassine; Hunt, Megan; & Harnad, Stevan (2015) *Open Access Policy: Numbers, Analysis, Effectiveness*. Pasteur4OA Workpackage 3 Report. http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/375854/ Mandating Green Gratis OA is a clear, tried, tested, feasible strategy to reach 100% Gratis Green OA globally. Do the CC-BY-NOW partisans have a better or faster way, that's been tried, tested and shown to be feasible? If so, we would all be very interested to hear what it is. But don't reply with a journal or publisher that offers CC-BY for a price, Most people are not buying (rightly). We are talking here about the entire refereed-research output of the planet's c. 10,000 universities and research institutions and we need a strategy that *scales*. Stevan Harnad > > > On 22 Jun 2015, at 12:34, Stephen Downes <stephen AT downes.ca> ↵ wrote: > > > as I would define it > > > > And I would define it as *more* free than licenses thatg allow people to > charge money for access to the document. > > > > This sort of insistence on One Special License is exactly what is limitin= g > the adoption of open access. > > > > -- Stephen > > > > *From:* boai-forum-bounces AT ecs.soton.ac.uk [ > mailto:boai-forum-bounces AT ecs.soton.ac.uk > <boai-forum-bounces AT ecs.soton.ac.uk>] *On Behalf Of *Jan Velterop > *Sent:* June-22-15 7:48 AM > *To:* Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) > *Cc:* boai-forum AT ecs.soton.ac.uk > *Subject:* [BOAI] Re: [GOAL] a chronology about open access > > > > Nice chronology of open access. Unfortunately CC-BY-NC-SA, so itself not > full open access as I would define it (though better than pay-walled, > obviously). > > Jan Velterop > > > On 22 Jun 2015, at 10:32, marie lebert <marie.lebert AT gmail.com> ↵ wrote: > > Dear all: > > > > https://marielebert.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/openaccesschronology/ > > > > Best regards from France, > > > > Marie > > > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL AT eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL AT eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal > > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL AT eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal > > --bcaec548a43934c44605191d739e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Jan Velterop ↵ <span dir=3D= "ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:velterop AT ↵ gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">velterop AT = gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div ↵ class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D= "gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" ↵ style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px= 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left= -style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div ↵ dir=3D"auto"><div>"<span style=3D"= background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">This sort of insistence on One ↵ Specia= l License is exactly what is limiting the adoption of open ↵ access."</s= pan></div><div><br></div><div>Really? Any ↵ evidence? I'd welcome it if y= our definition of open access found universal acceptance. Would be a great = step forward.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Jan ↵ Velterop</div></div></bloc= kquote><div><br></div><div>While the CC-BY-NOW ↵ (Libre OA) partisans keep in= sisting on having it all, now, thereby playing into the hands of Fools-Gold= publishers whilst we still hardly even have Gratis OA (free access online)= , those who would be more than happy to have Gratis OA at long last are wor= king to mandate it, and to test and optimize mandates for ↵ it.</div><div><br= ></div><div>Evidence that insisting prematurely on more results ↵ in getting = less is there, in the two published studies, for those who did not already = see the obvious.</div></div></div><blockquote ↵ style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;bo= rder:none;padding:0px"><div ↵ class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote= "><div><div><p ↵ style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Times">Vincent-Lamarre= , Philippe, Boivin, Jade, Gargouri, Yassine, Larivi=C3=A8re, Vincent and Ha= rnad, Stevan (2014)=C2=A0<a ↵ href=3D"http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/370203/">Est= imating Open Access Mandate Effectiveness: I. The MELIBEA ↵ Score.</a>=C2=A0(= Submitted)=C2=A0<a ↵ href=3D"http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/370203/">http://eprin= ts.soton.ac.uk/370203/</a></p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_e= xtra"><div ↵ class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div><p ↵ style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);fon= t-family:Times">Swan, Alma; Gargouri, Yassine; Hunt, Megan; & ↵ Harnad, S= tevan (2015)=C2=A0<i>Open Access Policy: Numbers, Analysis, ↵ Effectiveness</= i>. Pasteur4OA Workpackage 3 Report.=C2=A0<a ↵ href=3D"http://eprints.soton.a= c.uk/375854/">http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/375854/</a></p></div></div></div><= /div></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div ↵ class=3D"gmail_quote"><di= v>Mandating Green Gratis OA is a clear, tried, tested, feasible strategy to= reach 100% Gratis Green OA globally. Do the CC-BY-NOW partisans have a bet= ter or faster way, that's been tried, tested and shown to be feasible? ↵ = If so, we would all be very interested to hear what it ↵ is.</div><div><br></= div><div>But don't reply with a journal or publisher that ↵ offers CC-BY = for a price, Most people are not buying (rightly). We are talking here abou= t the entire refereed-research output of the planet's c. 10,000 ↵ univers= ities and research institutions and we need a strategy that ↵ <u>scales</u>.<= /div><div><br></div><div>Stevan ↵ Harnad</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot= e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px ↵ 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-colo= r:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div ↵ dir=3D"au= to"><div><br></div><div><br>On 22 Jun ↵ 2015, at 12:34, Stephen Downes <<a= href=3D"mailto:stephen AT downes.ca" ↵ target=3D"_blank">stephen AT downes.ca</a>&= gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote ↵ type=3D"cite"><div><div><p class=3D"Mso= Normal"><span ↵ style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:= rgb(31,73,125)">> </span>as I would define ↵ it<u></u><u></u></p><p class= =3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">And I would d= efine it as *more* free than licenses thatg allow people to charge money fo= r access to the document.<u></u><u></u></p><p ↵ class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>= =C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">This ↵ sort of insistence on One Spec= ial License is exactly what is limiting the adoption of open ↵ access.<u></u>= <u></u></p><p ↵ class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo= rmal">-- Stephen<span ↵ style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-seri= f;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp= an ↵ style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,1= 25)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-style:solid n= one none;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt= 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span ↵ lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size= :11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <a ↵ href=3D"mailto:= boai-forum-bounces AT ecs.soton.ac.uk" ↵ target=3D"_blank">boai-forum-bounces AT ec= s.soton.ac.uk</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:boai-forum-bounces AT ↵ ecs.soton.ac.uk" ta= rget=3D"_blank">mailto:boai-forum-bounces AT ↵ ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf= Of </b>Jan Velterop<br><b>Sent:</b> June-22-15 7:48 ↵ AM<br><b>To:</b> Globa= l Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a ↵ href=3D"mailto:boa= i-forum AT ecs.soton.ac.uk" target=3D"_blank">boai-forum AT ↵ ecs.soton.ac.uk</a><b= r><b>Subject:</b> [BOAI] Re: [GOAL] a chronology about open ↵ access<u></u><u= ></u></span></p></div></div><p ↵ class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>= <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Nice chronology of open ↵ access. Unfortunately C= C-BY-NC-SA, so itself not full open access as I would define it (though bet= ter than pay-walled, obviously).=C2=A0<br><br>Jan ↵ Velterop<u></u><u></u></p= ></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" ↵ style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><br>On 22 J= un 2015, at 10:32, marie lebert <<a href=3D"mailto:marie.lebert ↵ AT gmail.co= m" target=3D"_blank">marie.lebert AT ↵ gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p= ></div><blockquote ↵ style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p = class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear ↵ all:<u></u><u></u></p><div><p ↵ class=3D"MsoNormal">= <u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"h= ttps://marielebert.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/openaccesschronology/" target= =3D"_blank">https://marielebert.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/openaccesschronolo= gy/</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>= </u></p></div><div><p ↵ class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards from ↵ France,<u></u><= u></u></p></div><div><p ↵ class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><= div><p ↵ class=3D"MsoNormal">Marie<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class= =3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote><bloc= kquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p ↵ class=3D"MsoNorma= l">_______________________________________________<br>GOAL ↵ mailing list<br>= <a href=3D"mailto:GOAL AT eprints.org" ↵ target=3D"_blank">GOAL AT eprints.org</a><= br><a ↵ href=3D"http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" target= =3D"_blank">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a><u></u>= <u></u></p></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"= cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>= <span>GOAL mailing list</span><br><span><a ↵ href=3D"mailto:GOAL AT eprints.org"= target=3D"_blank">GOAL AT ↵ eprints.org</a></span><br><span><a ↵ href=3D"http://m= ailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" ↵ target=3D"_blank">http://mail= man.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a></span><br></div></blockquote>= </div><br>_______________________________________________<br> GOAL mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:GOAL AT eprints.org">GOAL AT ↵ eprints.org</a><br> <a href=3D"http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" ↵ rel=3D"nor= eferrer" ↵ target=3D"_blank">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/= goal</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br></div></div> --bcaec548a43934c44605191d739e-- -- To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page: http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/boai-forum [BOAI] [Forum Home] [index] [prev] [next] [options] [help]
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