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[BOAI] OA vs CC-BY-NOW

From: Stevan Harnad <amsciforum AT gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 12:06:01 -0400


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On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Jan Velterop <velterop AT gmail.com> 
wrote:

> "This sort of insistence on One Special License is exactly what is
> limiting the adoption of open access."
>
> Really? Any evidence? I'd welcome it if your definition of open access
> found universal acceptance. Would be a great step forward.
>
> Jan Velterop
>

While the CC-BY-NOW (Libre OA) partisans keep insisting on having it all,
now, thereby playing into the hands of Fools-Gold publishers whilst we
still hardly even have Gratis OA (free access online), those who would be
more than happy to have Gratis OA at long last are working to mandate it,
and to test and optimize mandates for it.

Evidence that insisting prematurely on more results in getting less is
there, in the two published studies, for those who did not already see the
obvious.

Vincent-Lamarre, Philippe, Boivin, Jade, Gargouri, Yassine, Larivi=C3=A8re,
Vincent and Harnad, Stevan (2014) Estimating Open Access Mandate
Effectiveness: I. The MELIBEA Score. <http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/370203/>
 (Submitted) http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/370203/

Swan, Alma; Gargouri, Yassine; Hunt, Megan; & Harnad, Stevan (2015) *Open
Access Policy: Numbers, Analysis, Effectiveness*. Pasteur4OA Workpackage 3
Report. http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/375854/

Mandating Green Gratis OA is a clear, tried, tested, feasible strategy to
reach 100% Gratis Green OA globally. Do the CC-BY-NOW partisans have a
better or faster way, that's been tried, tested and shown to be feasible?
If so, we would all be very interested to hear what it is.

But don't reply with a journal or publisher that offers CC-BY for a price,
Most people are not buying (rightly). We are talking here about the entire
refereed-research output of the planet's c. 10,000 universities and
research institutions and we need a strategy that *scales*.

Stevan Harnad

>
>
> On 22 Jun 2015, at 12:34, Stephen Downes <stephen AT downes.ca> 
wrote:
>
> > as I would define it
>
>
>
> And I would define it as *more* free than licenses thatg allow people to
> charge money for access to the document.
>
>
>
> This sort of insistence on One Special License is exactly what is limitin=
g
> the adoption of open access.
>
>
>
> -- Stephen
>
>
>
> *From:* boai-forum-bounces AT ecs.soton.ac.uk [
> mailto:boai-forum-bounces AT ecs.soton.ac.uk
> <boai-forum-bounces AT ecs.soton.ac.uk>] *On Behalf Of *Jan Velterop
> *Sent:* June-22-15 7:48 AM
> *To:* Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)
> *Cc:* boai-forum AT ecs.soton.ac.uk
> *Subject:* [BOAI] Re: [GOAL] a chronology about open access
>
>
>
> Nice chronology of open access. Unfortunately CC-BY-NC-SA, so itself not
> full open access as I would define it (though better than pay-walled,
> obviously).
>
> Jan Velterop
>
>
> On 22 Jun 2015, at 10:32, marie lebert <marie.lebert AT gmail.com> 
wrote:
>
> Dear all:
>
>
>
> https://marielebert.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/openaccesschronology/
>
>
>
> Best regards from France,
>
>
>
> Marie
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GOAL mailing list
> GOAL AT eprints.org
> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
>
> _______________________________________________
> GOAL mailing list
> GOAL AT eprints.org
> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GOAL mailing list
> GOAL AT eprints.org
> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Jan Velterop 
<span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:velterop AT 
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">velterop AT =
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div 
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" 
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left=
-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div 
dir=3D"auto"><div>&quot;<span style=3D"=
background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">This sort of insistence on One 
Specia=
l License is exactly what is limiting the adoption of open 
access.&quot;</s=
pan></div><div><br></div><div>Really? Any 
evidence? I&#39;d welcome it if y=
our definition of open access found universal acceptance. Would be a great =
step forward.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Jan 
Velterop</div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>While the CC-BY-NOW 
(Libre OA) partisans keep in=
sisting on having it all, now, thereby playing into the hands of Fools-Gold=
 publishers whilst we still hardly even have Gratis OA (free access online)=
, those who would be more than happy to have Gratis OA at long last are wor=
king to mandate it, and to test and optimize mandates for 
it.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Evidence that insisting prematurely on more results 
in getting =
less is there, in the two published studies, for those who did not already =
see the obvious.</div></div></div><blockquote 
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;bo=
rder:none;padding:0px"><div 
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div><div><p 
style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Times">Vincent-Lamarre=
, Philippe, Boivin, Jade, Gargouri, Yassine, Larivi=C3=A8re, Vincent and Ha=
rnad, Stevan (2014)=C2=A0<a 
href=3D"http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/370203/">Est=
imating Open Access Mandate Effectiveness: I. The MELIBEA 
Score.</a>=C2=A0(=
Submitted)=C2=A0<a 
href=3D"http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/370203/">http://eprin=
ts.soton.ac.uk/370203/</a></p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><div 
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div><p 
style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);fon=
t-family:Times">Swan, Alma; Gargouri, Yassine; Hunt, Megan; &amp; 
Harnad, S=
tevan (2015)=C2=A0<i>Open Access Policy: Numbers, Analysis, 
Effectiveness</=
i>. Pasteur4OA Workpackage 3 Report.=C2=A0<a 
href=3D"http://eprints.soton.a=
c.uk/375854/">http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/375854/</a></p></div></div></div><=
/div></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div 
class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v>Mandating Green Gratis OA is a clear, tried, tested, feasible strategy to=
 reach 100% Gratis Green OA globally. Do the CC-BY-NOW partisans have a bet=
ter or faster way, that&#39;s been tried, tested and shown to be feasible? 
=
If so, we would all be very interested to hear what it 
is.</div><div><br></=
div><div>But don&#39;t reply with a journal or publisher that 
offers CC-BY =
for a price, Most people are not buying (rightly). We are talking here abou=
t the entire refereed-research output of the planet&#39;s c. 10,000 
univers=
ities and research institutions and we need a strategy that 
<u>scales</u>.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Stevan 
Harnad</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-colo=
r:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div 
dir=3D"au=
to"><div><br></div><div><br>On 22 Jun 
2015, at 12:34, Stephen Downes &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:stephen AT downes.ca" 
target=3D"_blank">stephen AT downes.ca</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote 
type=3D"cite"><div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span 
style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:=
rgb(31,73,125)">&gt; </span>as I would define 
it<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">And I would d=
efine it as *more* free than licenses thatg allow people to charge money fo=
r access to the document.<u></u><u></u></p><p 
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">This 
sort of insistence on One Spec=
ial License is exactly what is limiting the adoption of open 
access.<u></u>=
<u></u></p><p 
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">-- Stephen<span 
style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an 
style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-style:solid n=
one none;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span 
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <a 
href=3D"mailto:=
boai-forum-bounces AT ecs.soton.ac.uk" 
target=3D"_blank">boai-forum-bounces AT ec=
s.soton.ac.uk</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:boai-forum-bounces AT 
ecs.soton.ac.uk" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">mailto:boai-forum-bounces AT 
ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf=
 Of </b>Jan Velterop<br><b>Sent:</b> June-22-15 7:48 
AM<br><b>To:</b> Globa=
l Open Access List (Successor of AmSci)<br><b>Cc:</b> <a 
href=3D"mailto:boa=
i-forum AT ecs.soton.ac.uk" target=3D"_blank">boai-forum AT 
ecs.soton.ac.uk</a><b=
r><b>Subject:</b> [BOAI] Re: [GOAL] a chronology about open 
access<u></u><u=
></u></span></p></div></div><p 
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Nice chronology of open 
access. Unfortunately C=
C-BY-NC-SA, so itself not full open access as I would define it (though bet=
ter than pay-walled, obviously).=C2=A0<br><br>Jan 
Velterop<u></u><u></u></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" 
style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><br>On 22 J=
un 2015, at 10:32, marie lebert &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:marie.lebert 
AT gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">marie.lebert AT 
gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p=
></div><blockquote 
style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear 
all:<u></u><u></u></p><div><p 
class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"h=
ttps://marielebert.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/openaccesschronology/" target=
=3D"_blank">https://marielebert.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/openaccesschronolo=
gy/</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></p></div><div><p 
class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards from 
France,<u></u><=
u></u></p></div><div><p 
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><=
div><p 
class=3D"MsoNormal">Marie<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p 
class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">_______________________________________________<br>GOAL 
mailing list<br>=
<a href=3D"mailto:GOAL AT eprints.org" 
target=3D"_blank">GOAL AT eprints.org</a><=
br><a 
href=3D"http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" target=
=3D"_blank">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a><u></u>=
<u></u></p></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>=
<span>GOAL mailing list</span><br><span><a 
href=3D"mailto:GOAL AT eprints.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">GOAL AT 
eprints.org</a></span><br><span><a 
href=3D"http://m=
ailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" 
target=3D"_blank">http://mail=
man.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal</a></span><br></div></blockquote>=
</div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
GOAL mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:GOAL AT eprints.org">GOAL AT 
eprints.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal" 
rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" 
target=3D"_blank">http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/=
goal</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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