Budapest Open Access Initiative      

Budapest Open Access Initiative: BOAI Forum Archive

[BOAI] [Forum Home] [index] [prev] [next] [options] [help]

boaiforum messages

[BOAI] Re: Open Access Week: Series of reports on OA

From: Stevan Harnad <harnad AT>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 17:00:20 -0400

Threading: [BOAI] Re: Open Access Week: Series of reports on OA from harnad AT
      • This Message

On Oct 25, 2014, at 4:24 PM, David Wojick <dwojick AT CRAIGELLACHIE.US> 

> Stevan, as I keep pointing out, the Federal government does not see it 
your way,
> so repeating your way is rather beside the point.
> As for my role, when I have a Federal client I do not advocate policy. I 
do issue analysis
> to facilitate policy decisions, or program design to implement them, or 
trouble shooting
> when a program does not work. 
> In the case of the Public Access program, the OSTP mandate was preceded by 
a lengthy
> interagency deliberation. The DOE OSTI Director co-chaired that effort and 
I did a lot of
> his staff work. The group failed to reach consensus because there were two 
> schools of thought, which accounts for some of the vagueness in the 
> One school, led by PMC, wanted a PMC approach wherein the government ran 
its own repository.
> (I call it PubFed Central.) The other, led by DOE, wanted to maximize the 
use of existing resources
> in a 3 tiered approach. Use the publisher's version of record and website 
where possible, or a
> repository if the publisher's version was not available, or a Federal 
repository as a last resort.
> There was never, ever, any consideration of a repository mandate, much 
less immediate deposit.

It sounds to me more like the "Federal government" has not yet worked 
out a coherent implementation 
of the OSTP mandate, which is vague or moot on the crucial implementation 
parameters we are 
discussing, and the many agencies — of which DOA/OSTI is only one — have not 
yet come to an 
agreement about them either.

What is seems obvious is that the “3-tiered approach,” where the OA provision 
distributed two ways 
between the fundees (who are bound by the funder mandate) and publishers (who 
are not), and where 
the locus of the OA provision is distributed between institutional 
repositories, central repositories and 
publisher websites is the worst possible one, both for the authors and for 
monitoring and ensuring

Yes, you’re quite right that the agencies did not consult me, as they did you. 
But I prefer to believe 
that they — like the UK funding councils, who have been at it much loner — 
remain open to 
evidence-based recommendations on the crucial implementation parameters, such 
as what should 
be deposited, how, when, where, by whom — and above all why. 

The optimal mandate is of course institutional deposit, with compliance 
monitored by the institution,
and then central export or harvest if desired. (Users find OA content on the 
web these days, e.g.,
via google and google scholar: the notion of a central collection is already 
obsolete. No one deposits
directly in google. But institutional deposit is crucial for compliance 
monitoring as well as institutional
Vincent-Lamarre, P., Boivin, J., Gargouri, Y., Larivière, V., & Harnad, S. 
Estimating Open Access Mandate Effectiveness: I. The MELIBEA Score. arXiv 
preprint arXiv:1410.2926.

> At 12:10 PM 10/25/2014, you wrote:
>> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe): David,
>> I am afraid I am less interested in your role as journalist than in 
your role as policy consultant to OSTI. 
>> As journalist you are reporting what the federal agencies are doing, 
but as a consultant you were 
>> influencing what a federal agency was doing.
>> To cut to the quick: The simplest way to keep publishers out of 
federal agency or university OA policy 
>> is not to consult them at all. 
>> All Green OA mandates should require institutional deposit of the 
refereed final draft immediately 
>> upon acceptance for publication, and the allowable OA embargo length 
on the deposit should be 
>> decided by the federal agency (or university). 
>> That’s all. Publishers have nothing to do with it — it needs neither 
their approval nor their collaboration. 
>> It is attempts to get publishers involved in the implementation of the 
mandate that cause the needless
>> confusions and conflicts:
>> 1. Federal funders fund researcher (with tax-payer money).
>> 2. Institutional authors conduct and report the research.
>> 3. Peer researchers review the research reports.
>> 4. Publishers fund the administration of the peer review (and in 
exchange they get exclusive 
>> subscription sale rights).
>> 5. Funders and institutions mandate Green OA self-archiving (as a 
condition of funding, 
>> and university research performance evaluation)
>> 6. Authors comply with the Green OA mandates — by depositing 
immediately upon acceptance, 
>> and making the deposit OA immediately, or after the allowable embargo 
at the latest.
>> That’s all there is to it: Publishers have nothing to do with 
compliance with the mandates.
>> Have you advised otherwise, in your capacity as consultant?
>> Stevan Harnad
>> On Oct 25, 2014, at 11:31 AM, David Wojick <dwojick AT 
>>> Stevan (I prefer to reply at the top like most people here),
>>> As you should know, I am now a journalist, which I was prior to 
joining DOE in 2004. In this role I get to criticize everyone, including the 
publishers. My rag is which you might consider 
subscribing to in order to know what is actually going on. If you think the 
publishers have any sort of control you are mistaken, as the Feds are in 
charge. I have written about this in some detail. However, if you know of any 
US agency that is taking your proposals seriously I would love to hear about 
>>> Something very interesting is going on, namely a group of medical 
students is investigating DOE, probably looking for improper liaison with the 
publishers (which I doubt exists). Here are some excerpts from this weeks issue 
of Inside Public Access:
>>> DOE hit with Public Access FOIA request
>>> Synopsis: The US Energy Dept. is responding to a Freedom of 
Information Act request targeting correspondence between DOE and the 
"publishing industry" regarding the Department's Public Access 
program. The FOIA request comes from the American Medical Student Association 
and appears to be related to their "Access to Medicine" campaign. The 
purpose of the request is unclear at this time.
>>> AMSA and the FOIA request
>>> Ms. Reshma Ramachandran from the American Medical Student 
Association (AMSA) has filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with 
the US Energy Department. The request is reportedly for "Copies of all 
correspondence including electronic and paper communications, between all 
Department of Energy personnel tasked with developing the Department of 
Energy's plan for providing access to the results of federally funded research 
and the publishing industry relating to the development, drafting and 
implementation of said plan for providing access to the results of federally 
funded research released on August 4, 2014." DOE is working to collect and 
deliver all the requested documents. Everything prior to September 11, 2014, 
when the request was finalized, will be included. 
>>> Interestingly, there is a recent precedent for the AMSA FOIA 
action. Kent Anderson, editor of the prestigious Scholarly Kitchen blog and 
President of the Society for Scholarly Publishing, did a FOIA action against 
PubMed Central that yielded a considerable amount of potentially damaging 
information. In particular, Anderson made a number of allegations of conflict 
of interest and other wrongs in some collaborations between PMC and certain 
>>> FOIA actions have a tendency to chill communications between 
agencies and the public. Unfortunately this AMSA enquiry comes just when that 
sort of communication is most important, because DOE and the scholarly 
community must work closely together if Public Access is going to work well. As 
they say, the devil is in the details, and the details are now upon us. As we 
have documented here in Inside Public Access, there are a host of serious and 
complex procedural issues yet to be worked out.
>>> I have trouble believing it is worth it, but it remains to be seen 
what, if anything, AMSA finds. Perhaps the real danger is that innocent 
statements will be taken out of context and used politically, rather than to 
improve the Public Access program. On the other hand maybe there is something 
wrong going on. In any case the results may be quite interesting, now that the 
spotlight is on.
>>> A surprising development. Med students!
>>> David
>>> At 09:02 AM 10/25/2014, you wrote:
>>>> Adminstrative info for SIGMETRICS (for example unsubscribe):
>>>>> On Oct 24, 2014, at 5:05 PM, William Gunn < 
william.gunn AT MENDELEY.COM> wrote:
>>>>>> DOA as an acronym for "Delayed Open Access" 
does have a certain ring to it, now that I think about it...
>>>>>> William Gunn | Head of Academic Outreach, Mendeley |  
AT mrgunn
>>>>>> | (650) 
>>>>> On Oct 25, 2014, at 7:41 AM, David Wojick <dwojick AT 
>>>>> Are you referring to the fact that DOA usually means Dead 
On Arrival? Given that the US Public
>>>>> Access program has opted for delayed access it is more 
like Dominant On Arrival, since the Feds
>>>>> fund a significant fraction of all published research. In 
that regard I notice that the definition of DOA
>>>>> does not mention government mandates, which it should. The 
US action may be decisive.
>>>>> Also the references to hybrid are somewhat muddled. Hybrid 
is not a kind of article access at all,
>>>>> rather it is a kind of journal access. Perhaps we need a 
different set of definitions for articles and journals.
>>>>> What does seem funny to me, as an observer, is that the 
publishers have basically said "Okay, if you
>>>>> insist on giving us money to publish your articles, then 
we will take it." Wiley, for example, is bringing
>>>>> out a bunch of new APC journals. At this point it looks 
like DOA and APC are the future of OA. Of course
>>>>> that may change given time.
>>>>> David Wojick
>>>> Try IDOA instead of DOA to bring access back to life 
>>>> and to hasten the (inevitable and well-deserved) demise of OA 
>>>> And the feds will lead the way only if they ignore consultants 
who try to steer them in the direction 
>>>> of publisher control, publisher embargoes and DOA, and go IDOA 
>>>> (Bravo to William Gunn for his spot-on pun!)
>>>> Harnad, S (2014) The only way to make inflated journal 
subscriptions unsustainable: Mandate Green Open Access.
>>>> LSE Impact of Social Sciences Blog 4/28 
>>>> Vincent-Lamarre, P., Boivin, J., Gargouri, Y., Larivière, V., 
& Harnad, S. (2014).
>>>> Estimating Open Access Mandate Effectiveness: I. The MELIBEA 
Score. arXiv preprint arXiv:1410.2926.

ATTACHMENT: message.html!

-- To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:

[BOAI] [Forum Home] [index] [prev] [next] [options] [help]

 E-mail: .