Budapest Open Access Initiative      

Budapest Open Access Initiative: BOAI Forum Archive

[BOAI] [Forum Home] [index] [prev] [next] [options] [help]

boaiforum messages

[BOAI] Re: CHORUS is a Trojan Horse

From: Stevan Harnad <amsciforum AT gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 10:07:38 -0400


Threading: [BOAI] Re: CHORUS is a Trojan Horse from amsciforum AT gmail.com
      • This Message

--001a11c1515499584504fdff94ff
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 8:57 AM, David Wojick <dwojick AT 
craigellachie.us>
 wrote:


> *DW: *The embargo periods will be set by the Feds.
>

The embargo periods are set by the *publishers*. The Feds only set what is
the longest embargo period they will allow.


> *DW: *It is better to send users to the publisher's website than to a
> federal repository of accepted manuscripts, also cheaper.


It's neither better nor cheaper.

But it's best to send users where they already go: the indexes, harvesters
and search engines. Those in turn are best to harvest from *the
researchers' own institutional repositories*, which happen to be the
providers of all the research output, and are in the best position to
monitor and ensure that all OA mandates -- institutional mandates and
funder mandates -- are complied with for their own output.

And distributed institutional repositories are much cheaper than central
ones (which would in turm be much cheaper if they simply harvested the
metadata from the institutional repositories).

*DW: *Generally speaking one does not lobby Executive branch agencies.


No; but lobbyists can *consult* for them...


> *DW: *The publishers have had a few polite meetings with OSTP and the
> agency group but that is about it. We are all just waiting to see what th=
e
> Feds are going to do. Also, scholarly publishing is far too small to have
> "lobbying power." It is a tiny industry, almost beneath notice.
>

I think past and ongoing anti-OA lobbying attempts by the "tiny" 
publishing
industry have been quite large-scale, and are a matter of public record:
PRISM
<https://www.google.ca/search?hl=3Den&lr=3D&q=3Dharnad%20OR%20Harnad%20OR%2=
0archivangelism+blogurl:http://openaccess.eprints.org/&ie=3DUTF-8&tbm=3Dblg=
&tbs=3Dqdr:m&num=3D100&c2coff=3D1&safe=3Dactive&gws_rd=3Dssl#c2coff=3D1&hl=
=3Den&lr=3D&q=3Dprism+blogurl:http:%2F%2Fopenaccess.eprints.org%2F&safe=3Da=
ctive&tbm=3Dblg>
, EU
<http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/263-Publisher-anti-OA-Lo=
bby-Triumphs-in-European-Commission.html>
, RWA <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Works_Act>, Finch
<https://www.google.ca/search?hl=3Den&lr=3D&q=3Dharnad%20OR%20Harnad%20OR%2=
0archivangelism+blogurl:http://openaccess.eprints.org/&ie=3DUTF-8&tbm=3Dblg=
&tbs=3Dqdr:m&num=3D100&c2coff=3D1&safe=3Dactive&gws_rd=3Dssl#c2coff=3D1&hl=
=3Den&lr=3D&q=3DFinch+blogurl%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fopenaccess.eprints.org%2F&safe=
=3Dactive&tbas=3D0&tbm=3Dblg>,
etc. etc.

 *Stevan Harnad*

--001a11c1515499584504fdff94ff
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 8:57 AM, David 
Wojick=C2=A0<span d=
ir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dwojick AT 
craigellachie.us" target=3D"_blank=
">dwojick AT 
craigellachie.us</a>&gt;</span>=C2=A0wrote:<br><div 
class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=C2=A0</div><div><blockquote 
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bor=
der-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><b>DW:=C2=A0</b>The 
embargo periods =
will be set by the Feds.=C2=A0<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>The embargo 
periods are set by the=C2=A0<i=
>publishers</i>. The Feds only set what is the longest embargo period 
they =
will allow.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote 
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<b>DW:=C2=A0</b>It is better to send users to the 
publisher&#39;s website t=
han to a federal repository of accepted manuscripts, also cheaper.</blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s neither better 
nor cheaper.</div><div><br>=
</div>
<div>But it&#39;s best to send users where they already go: the 
indexes, ha=
rvesters and search engines. Those in turn are best to harvest from=C2=A0<i=
>the researchers&#39; own institutional repositories</i>, which 
happen to b=
e the providers of all the research output, and are in the best position to=
 monitor and ensure that all OA mandates -- institutional mandates and fund=
er mandates -- are complied with for their own output.=C2=A0</div>
</div><div><br></div><div>And distributed 
institutional repositories are mu=
ch cheaper than central ones (which would in turm be much cheaper if they s=
imply harvested the metadata from the institutional repositories).</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" 
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><b>DW:=C2=A0</b>Generally 
speaking one does=
 not lobby Executive branch agencies.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>No; but lobbyists 
can=C2=A0<i>consult</i>=C2=A0for them=
...=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote 
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,20=
4,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<b>DW:=C2=A0</b>The publishers have had a few polite meetings with 
OSTP and=
 the agency group but that is about it. We are all just waiting to see what=
 the Feds are going to do. Also, scholarly publishing is far too small to h=
ave &quot;lobbying power.&quot; It is a tiny industry, almost beneath 
notic=
e.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think past and 
ongoing anti-OA lobbying =
attempts by the &quot;tiny&quot; publishing industry have been quite 
large-=
scale, and are a matter of public record:=C2=A0<a 
href=3D"https://www.googl=
e.ca/search?hl=3Den&amp;lr=3D&amp;q=3Dharnad%20OR%20Harnad%20OR%20archivang=
elism+blogurl:http://openaccess.eprints.org/&amp;ie=3DUTF-8&amp;tbm=3Dblg&a=
mp;tbs=3Dqdr:m&amp;num=3D100&amp;c2coff=3D1&amp;safe=3Dactive&amp;gws_rd=3D=
ssl#c2coff=3D1&amp;hl=3Den&amp;lr=3D&amp;q=3Dprism+blogurl:http:%2F%2Fopena=
ccess.eprints.org%2F&amp;safe=3Dactive&amp;tbm=3Dblg">PRISM</a>,=C2=A0<a hr=
ef=3D"http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/263-Publisher-anti-=
OA-Lobby-Triumphs-in-European-Commission.html">EU</a>,=C2=A0<a 
href=3D"http=
s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Works_Act">RWA</a>,=C2=A0<a 
href=3D"http=
s://www.google.ca/search?hl=3Den&amp;lr=3D&amp;q=3Dharnad%20OR%20Harnad%20O=
R%20archivangelism+blogurl:http://openaccess.eprints.org/&amp;ie=3DUTF-8&am=
p;tbm=3Dblg&amp;tbs=3Dqdr:m&amp;num=3D100&amp;c2coff=3D1&amp;safe=3Dactive&=
amp;gws_rd=3Dssl#c2coff=3D1&amp;hl=3Den&amp;lr=3D&amp;q=3DFinch+blogurl%3Ah=
ttp%3A%2F%2Fopenaccess.eprints.org%2F&amp;safe=3Dactive&amp;tbas=3D0&amp;tb=
m=3Dblg">Finch</a>, etc. etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<b>Stevan 
Harnad</b></div></div></div></div>

--001a11c1515499584504fdff94ff--

        
--      
To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/boai-forum

[BOAI] [Forum Home] [index] [prev] [next] [options] [help]

 E-mail:  openaccess@soros.org .