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[BOAI] Sour Grapes in the SSP Scholarly Scullery

From: Stevan Harnad <amsciforum AT gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 07:31:17 -0400


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*Joseph Esposito:*<http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013/09/26/when-it-co=
mes-to-green-oa-nice-guys-finish-last/>

*"Stevan Harnad engaged Rick=92s
comment<http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/1051-Is-the-Libra=
ry-Community-Friend-or-Foe-of-OA.html>
and
asserted that such a [journal cancellation] policy was a very bad thing
since it would set back the advance of Green OA. This is an interesting
remark, as it reveals Professor Harnad=92s conviction that librarians, inde=
ed
the whole world, should view the achievement of his idiosyncratic goal as
their highest priority. As far as I know, it is not the mission of Rick=92s
institution or any other to put Green OA at the top of a list of
desiderata. Most institutions put service to their own institutions first,
as one would expect. Cancelling Green OA journals will indeed set back the
advance of Green OA, but that=92s beside the point."*

*David Crotty*<http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013/09/26/when-it-comes-=
to-green-oa-nice-guys-finish-last/#comment-112263>
(with
11 scholarly thumbs up from his co-cuisiniers): *
"I find Dr. Harnad=92s response here somewhat appalling. Progress in
implementing Open Access will come from open discussion, analysis and
experimentation, not from censorship, obfuscation and withholding
information. When voices as disparate as Kent Anderson and Cameron Neylon
are in agreement about OA reaching a new era of practical implementation,
it should be a sign that Harnad is out of step here. It=92s always valuable
to have someone willing to point out the state of the Emperor=92s clothing.=
"*

Compliments to the chefs. Some suggested recipe upgrades:

1. No suggestion made that institutions cannot or should not cancel
journals if their articles are all or almost all Green.

(No such journal in sight yet, however, since Green OA is still hovering
around 20-30%, apart from some parts of Physics -- but there it's already
been at or near 100% for over 20 years, and no cancellations in
sight<http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/261006/>.
For the rest, when Green OA -- which grows anarchically, article by
article, not systematically, journal by
journal<http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/265753/> --
prevails universally, because Green OA mandates prevail, all or most
journal articles will be Green universally, so Green OA will not be a
factor in deciding whether to cancel this journal rather than that one.)

2. The issue with Rick was not about the notion of canceling journals
because their articles are all or almost all Green, but about cancelling
journals (60%) because they do *not* have a policy of embargoing Green OA!

3. And such a perverse cancellation policy would not be a setback for Green
OA but for OA itself. (But not a *big* setback, thanks to the
Li=E8ge<http://orbi.ulg.ac.be/handle/2268/102031>
-FNRS <http://roarmap.eprints.org/850/> model immediate-deposit mandate
recommended by BOAI-10<http://www.budapestopenaccessinitiative.org/boai-10-=
recommendations>
, HEFCE<http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/987-The-UKs-New-H=
EFCEREF-OA-Mandate-Proposal.html>
, BIS<http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/1040-UK-BIS-Committ=
ee-2013-Report-on-Open-Access.html>
 and HOAP<http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/hoap/Implementing_a_policy#Internal_=
use_of_deposited_versions>,
which is immune to publisher embargoes.)

(I notice in the SSP scullery discussion above that my suggestion that Rick
should post his OA-unfriendly cancellation strategy to library lists rather
than to OA lists amounts to a call for censorship over open discussion. I
add only that I am not the moderator of any list, hence have no say over
their content. It was an open expression, on an open list, of my opinion
(together with the reasons for it) that such discussion belongs on another
open list.)

*Stevan Harnad*

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verda=
na,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><a 
href=3D"http://scholarlyki=
tchen.sspnet.org/2013/09/26/when-it-comes-to-green-oa-nice-guys-finish-last=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102)"><strong>Joseph 
Esposito:</strong></a>=A0<b=
r>
<em>&quot;Stevan Harnad engaged=A0<a 
href=3D"http://openaccess.eprints.org/=
index.php?/archives/1051-Is-the-Library-Community-Friend-or-Foe-of-OA.html"=
 style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102)">Rick=92s comment</a>=A0and 
asserted that suc=
h a [journal cancellation] policy was a very bad thing since it would set b=
ack the advance of Green OA. This is an interesting remark, as it reveals P=
rofessor Harnad=92s conviction that librarians, indeed the whole world, sho=
uld view the achievement of his idiosyncratic goal as their highest priorit=
y. As far as I know, it is not the mission of Rick=92s institution or any o=
ther to put Green OA at the top of a list of desiderata. Most institutions =
put service to their own institutions first, as one would expect. Cancellin=
g Green OA journals will indeed set back the advance of Green OA, but that=
=92s beside the point.&quot;</em><blockquote>
<a 
href=3D"http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013/09/26/when-it-comes-to-g=
reen-oa-nice-guys-finish-last/#comment-112263" 
style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102)=
"><strong>David Crotty</strong></a>=A0(with 11 
scholarly thumbs up from his=
 co-cuisiniers):=A0<em><br>
&quot;I find Dr. Harnad=92s response here somewhat appalling. Progress in 
i=
mplementing Open Access will come from open discussion, analysis and experi=
mentation, not from censorship, obfuscation and withholding information. Wh=
en voices as disparate as Kent Anderson and Cameron Neylon are in agreement=
 about OA reaching a new era of practical implementation, it should be a si=
gn that Harnad is out of step here. It=92s always valuable to have someone =
willing to point out the state of the Emperor=92s 
clothing.&quot;</em></blo=
ckquote>
</blockquote><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,h=
elvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Compliments to the chefs. Some 
suggeste=
d recipe upgrades:</span><br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verda=
na,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px"><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana=
,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">1. No suggestion made that 
inst=
itutions cannot or should not cancel journals if their articles are all or =
almost all Green.=A0</span><br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:ver=
dana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px"><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana=
,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">(No such journal in sight 
yet, =
however, since Green OA is still hovering around 20-30%, apart from some pa=
rts of Physics -- but there it&#39;s already been at or near 100% for over 
=
20 years, and=A0</span><a 
href=3D"http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/261006/" style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:13px">no cancellations in sight</a><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51)=
;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">. For 
the r=
est, when Green OA -- which=A0</span><a 
href=3D"http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/=
265753/" 
style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px">grows anarchically, article by article, not 
syste=
matically, journal by journal</a><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-fa=
mily:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">=A0-- prevails 
univ=
ersally, because Green OA mandates prevail, all or most journal articles wi=
ll be Green universally, so Green OA will not be a factor in deciding wheth=
er to cancel this journal rather than that one.)</span><br 
style=3D"color:r=
gb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"=
>
<br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px"><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana=
,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">2. The issue with Rick was 
not =
about the notion of canceling journals because their articles are all or al=
most all Green, but about cancelling journals (60%) because they do 
<i>not<=
/i> have a policy of embargoing Green OA!</span><br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,5=
1,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px"><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana=
,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">3. And such a perverse 
cancella=
tion policy would not be a setback for Green OA but for OA itself. (But not=
 a=A0</span><em 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">big</em><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51)=
;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">=A0setback,=
 thanks to the <a 
href=3D"http://orbi.ulg.ac.be/handle/2268/102031">Li=E8ge=
</a>-<a 
href=3D"http://roarmap.eprints.org/850/">FNRS</a> model 
immediate-d=
eposit mandate recommended by=A0</span><a 
href=3D"http://www.budapestopenac=
cessinitiative.org/boai-10-recommendations" 
style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102);fo=
nt-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">BOAI-10</a><sp=
an 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:13px">,=A0</span><a 
href=3D"http://openaccess.eprints.org/ind=
ex.php?/archives/987-The-UKs-New-HEFCEREF-OA-Mandate-Proposal.html" style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:13px">HEFCE</a><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana=
,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">,=A0</span><a 
href=3D"http://op=
enaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/1040-UK-BIS-Committee-2013-Report-=
on-Open-Access.html" 
style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102);font-family:verdana,arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">BIS</a>=A0<span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51=
,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">and=
=A0</span><a 
href=3D"http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/hoap/Implementing_a_polic=
y#Internal_use_of_deposited_versions" 
style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102);font-fam=
ily:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">HOAP</a><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font=
-size:13px">, which is immune to publisher 
embargoes.)</span><br style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size=
:13px">
<br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px"><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana=
,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">(I notice in the SSP 
scullery d=
iscussion above that my suggestion that Rick should post his OA-unfriendly =
cancellation strategy to library lists rather than to OA lists amounts to a=
 call for censorship over open discussion. I add only that I am not the mod=
erator of any list, hence have no say over their content. It was an open ex=
pression, on an open list, of my opinion (together with the reasons for it)=
 that such discussion belongs on another open list.)=A0</span><br 
style=3D"=
color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:13px">
<br 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px"><strong 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verda=
na,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Stevan 
Harnad</strong><br></d=
iv>

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