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[BOAI] Re: Harnad Comments on Proposed HEFCE/REF Green Open Access Mandate

From: David Prosser <david.prosser AT rluk.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:26:51 +0000


Threading: [BOAI] Harnad Comments on Proposed HEFCE/REF Green Open Access Mandate from amsciforum AT gmail.com
      • This Message


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JISC is funding a project, PIRUS, that looks to provide a framework =
whereby usage statistics can be combined from a number of sites.  So if =
copies of an OA paper are on a centralised subject-based repository, a =
publisher's site, and a (or potentially many) university repositories =
you could get a feeling for the total usage of the paper.  Details at:

http://www.jisc.ac.uk/whatwedo/programmes/pals3/pirus.aspx

although it is a little while since I last heard an update about the =
project.  One condition is that it is based on providing =
COUNTER-compliant usage statistics and I know that this is an issue for =
some smaller publishers.

If a publisher (small or otherwise) were able to show the total usage of =
the article rather than just the usage at their own site it would, I =
hope, boost their argument for showing the value they are bringing to =
the process.

Best wishes

David



On 15 Mar 2013, at 08:05, Andras Holl wrote:

>=20
> Nick,=20
>=20
> Small, independent, innovative OA journals do not get the credit they =
would deserve -=20
> I am partial, because I have my "own" journal - and often left 
out of =
considerations.=20
> They are not green, but not "professional" gold either. They 
might not =
get IFs,=20
> in spite of their (measurable) quality, success and impact. They are =
not represented=20
> properly (that's what I feel) by OASPA either.=20
>=20
> Andras Holl=20
>=20
>=20
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:47:27 +1100, Nick Thieberger wrote=20
> > Steven,=20
> >=20
> > Our example is of a small OA journal, now in its seventh year. We =
have pioneered publishing primary language material to accompany =
linguistic articles and locate all our collection in a DSpace repository =
with handles. Our funding is scraped together and covers student GAships =
for copy-editing and page layout of articles. Our reach is excellent and =
can always be improved, but we use download statistics to emulate an =
impact factor. In your model, author download statistics will be split =
between the OA journal's site and the home institution's repository. My =
University repository allows us to have a full citation that points to =
the OA article in the originating journal's repository and that would =
seem to be a good outcome for both your mandating institution and the =
struggling OA journal that needs to justify itself to its funders. I'm =
sorry that you think that an OA journal that is doing its best to keep =
producing free OA output is acting as a publisher with a 'publishers' =
importunate nonsense'.=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Nick Thieberger=20
> >=20
> > On 15 March 2013 08:00, Stevan Harnad <harnad AT 
ecs.soton.ac.uk> =
wrote:=20
> >
>=20
> >=20
> > On 2013-03-14, at 1:13 AM, Nick Thieberger <thien AT 
unimelb.edu.au> =
wrote:=20
> >
>>=20
>>=20
>> > But what if the article is in an OA journal that would like to 
have =
the hit count for
>>=20
>> > downloads from its site? Is there scope for the mandate to cover 
=
only non-OA
>>=20
>> > journal articles perhaps?
>=20
> >=20
> > That would be an exceedingly bad solution, for authors, for their =
institutions=20
> > for their research and for OA.=20
> >=20
> > And institutions would lose a simple, natural, powerful and uniform =
way to monitor=20
> > mandate compliance by their authors.=20
> >=20
> > And what's more important: hit/download counts for authors, for =
their own articles,=20
> > and for their institutions, or hit/download counts for publishers' =
sites?=20
> >=20
> > But in any case there's a simple (though silly) compromise:=20
> >=20
> > All articles (whether subscription or Gold, emargoed or not) must be 
=
immediately=20
> > deposited in the author's institutional repository.=20
> >=20
> > Where the author either wishes to comply with a non-OA publisher's =
embargo=20
> > on Green OA, or with a Gold-OA publisher's desire to have =
hit/download counts=20
> > for its site, access to the deposit need not be made OA (until the =
embargo=20
> > elapses or until the author tires of accommodating publishers' =
importunate=20
> > nonsense).=20
> >=20
> > Stevan Harnad=20
> >=20
> >
>>=20
>>=20
>> >=20
>> > Nick Thieberger=20
>> > Editor=20
>> > Language Documentation & Conservation Journal=20
>> > http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/=20
>> >=20
>> > On 14 March 2013 11:16, Stevan Harnad <amsciforum AT 
gmail.com> wrote:=20=

>> >
>> Full Text: =
http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/994-.html=20
>> >=20
>> > Executive Summary: The proposed HEFCE/REF Open Access [OA] 
mandate =
-- that in order to be eligible for REF, the peer-reviewed final draft =
of all journal articles must be deposited in the author=92s =
institutional repository immediately upon publication, with embargoes =
applicable only to the date at which the article must be made OA =96 is =
excellent, and provides exactly the sort of complement required by the =
RCUK OA mandate. It ensures that authors deposit immediately and =
institutionally and it recruits their institutions to monitor and ensure =
compliance.=20
>> >       For journal articles, no individual or disciplinary =
exceptions or exemptions to the immediate-deposit are needed, but =
embargo length can be adapted to the discipline or even to exceptional =
individual cases.=20
>> >       Embargo length is even more important for open data, and =
should be carefully and flexibly adapted to the needs not only of =
disciplines and individuals, but of each individual research project.=20
>> >       Requiring monograph OA if the author does not wish to 
provide =
it is not reasonable, but perhaps many or most monograph authors would =
not mind depositing their texts as Closed Access.=20
>> >=20
>> > --=20
>> > To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:=20
>> > http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f=20
>> >=20
>> >
>>=20
>> >=20
>> > --      =20
>> > To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:=20
>> > http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f=20
>> >
>=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> > To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:=20
> > http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f=20
> >=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------=20
> Andras Holl / Holl Andras                 e-mail: holl AT konkoly.hu=20
> Konkoly Observatory / MTA CsFK CsI       Tel.: +36 1 3919368 Fax: +36 =
1 2754668=20
> IT manager / Szamitastechn. rendszervez. Mail: H1525 POBox 67, =
Budapest, Hungary=20
> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------=20
>=20
> <ATT00001..txt>


--Apple-Mail-2-632838576
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=windows-1252

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: 
break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">JISC 
=
is funding a project, PIRUS, that looks to provide a framework whereby =
usage statistics can be combined from a number of sites. &nbsp;So if =
copies of an OA paper are on a centralised subject-based repository, a =
publisher's site, and a (or potentially many) university repositories =
you could get a feeling for the total usage of the paper. &nbsp;Details =
at:<div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.jisc.ac.uk/whatwedo/programmes/pals3/pirus.aspx">http:/=
/www.jisc.ac.uk/whatwedo/programmes/pals3/pirus.aspx</a></div><div><br></d=
iv><div>although it is a little while since I last heard an update 
about =
the project. &nbsp;One condition is that it is based on providing =
COUNTER-compliant usage statistics and I know that this is an issue for =
some smaller 
publishers.</div><div><br></div><div>If a 
publisher (small =
or otherwise) were able to show the total usage of the article rather =
than just the usage at their own site it would, I hope, boost their =
argument for showing the value they are bringing to the =
process.</div><div><br></div><div>Best =
wishes</div><div><br></div><div>David</div><div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; 
color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; 
color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span 
class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span 
class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span 
class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 15 Mar 2013, at 08:05, Andras Holl 
wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote 
type=3D"cite">

<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" 
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
<meta content=3D"OPENWEBMAIL" name=3D"GENERATOR">

<div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">

<font size=3D"2"><b>
<br></b>Nick,
<br>
<br>Small, independent, innovative OA journals do not get the credit =
they would deserve -
<br>I am partial, because I have my "own" journal - and often 
left out =
of considerations.
<br>They are not green, but not "professional" gold either. 
They might =
not get IFs,
<br>in spite of their (measurable) quality, success and impact. They are 
=
not represented
<br>properly (that's what I feel) by OASPA either.
<br>
<br>Andras Holl<b>
<br>
<br>
<br>On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:47:27 +1100, Nick Thieberger wrote</b>
<br>&gt;=20
Steven,
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; Our example is of a small OA journal, now in its=20
seventh year. We have pioneered publishing primary language material to=20=

accompany linguistic articles and locate all our collection in a DSpace=20=

repository with handles. Our funding is scraped together and covers =
student=20
GAships for copy-editing and page layout of articles. Our reach is =
excellent and=20
can always be improved, but we use download statistics to emulate an =
impact=20
factor. In your model, author download statistics will be split between =
the OA=20
journal's site and the home institution's repository. My University=20
repository allows us to have a full citation that points to the OA =
article in=20
the originating journal's repository and that would seem to be a good=20
outcome for both your mandating institution and the struggling OA =
journal that=20
needs to justify itself to its funders. I'm sorry that you think that an =
OA=20
journal that is doing its best to keep producing free OA output is =
acting as a=20
publisher with a '<span style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; =
font-size: 13px;">publishers'=20
importunate&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family: 
arial,sans-serif; =
font-size: 13px;">nonsense'.</span>
<br>&gt;=20

<span style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 
13px;">
<br>&gt;=20
</span>
<br>&gt; <span style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; 
font-size: =
13px;">Nick=20
Thieberger</span>
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;=20

On 15 March 2013 08:00, Stevan Harnad <span 
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:harnad AT ecs.soton.ac.uk">harnad AT 
ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>&gt;</spa=
n> wrote:
<br>&gt; <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; 
border-left: =
1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" 
class=3D"gmail_quote">

<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; On 2013-03-14, at 1:13 AM, Nick Thieberger &lt;<a =
target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:thien AT unimelb.edu.au">thien AT 
unimelb.edu.au</a>&gt;=20
wrote:
<br>&gt; <blockquote type=3D"cite">
<br>&gt;=20

But what if the article is in an OA journal that would like to have the =
hit=20
count for</blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">
<br>&gt; downloads from its site?=20
Is there scope for the mandate to cover only=20
non-OA

</blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">
<br>&gt; journal articles=20
perhaps?</blockquote>
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; That would be an exceedingly bad=20
solution, for authors, for their institutions
<br>&gt; for their research and for=20
OA.

<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; And institutions would lose a simple, natural, powerful 
and=20
uniform way to monitor
<br>&gt; mandate compliance by their authors.
<br>&gt;=20

<br>&gt; And what's more important: hit/download counts for authors, 
for=20=

their own=20
articles,

<br>&gt; and for their institutions, or&nbsp;hit/download 
counts=20
for&nbsp;publishers' sites?
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; But in any case there's a=20
simple (though silly) compromise:
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; All articles (whether=20
subscription or Gold, emargoed or not) must be=20
immediately

<br>&gt; deposited in the author's institutional repository.
<br>&gt;=20

<br>&gt; Where the author either wishes to comply with a non-OA =
publisher's=20
embargo
<br>&gt; on Green OA, or with a Gold-OA publisher's desire to=20
have&nbsp;hit/download=20
counts

<br>&gt; for its site, access to the deposit need not be made OA 
(until =
the=20
embargo
<br>&gt; elapses or until the author tires of accommodating=20
publishers' importunate
<br>&gt; nonsense).
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; Stevan=20
Harnad

<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; <blockquote type=3D"cite">
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; Nick=20
Thieberger
<br>&gt; Editor
<br>&gt; Language Documentation &amp; Conservation=20
Journal
<br>&gt; <a target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/">http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/=
</a>

<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; On 14 March 2013 11:16, Stevan Harnad <span 
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"mailto:amsciforum AT gmail.com">amsciforum AT 
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:
<br>&gt; <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; 
border-left: =
1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" 
class=3D"gmail_quote">

Full Text:&nbsp;<a target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/994-.html">http:=
//openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/994-.html</a>
<br>&gt;=20

<br>&gt; <strong style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 
13px; =
font-family: verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Executive=20
Summary:</strong><span style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); 
font-size: 13px; =
font-family: 
verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><em =
style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px; font-family: =
verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">The&nbsp;<a 
target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 51, 102);" =
href=3D"http://www.hefce.ac.uk/media/hefce/content/news/news/2013/open_acc=
ess_letter.pdf">proposed HEFCE/REF Open Access [OA]=20
mandate</a>&nbsp;-- that in order to be eligible for REF, the =
peer-reviewed final=20
draft of all journal articles must be deposited in the author=92s =
institutional=20
repository immediately upon publication, with embargoes applicable only =
to the=20
date at which the article must be made OA =96 is excellent, =
and&nbsp;<em>provides=20
exactly the sort of complement required by the RCUK OA mandate</em>. It =
ensures=20
that authors deposit immediately and institutionally and it recruits =
their=20
institutions to monitor and ensure compliance.
<br>&gt;=20

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;For journal 
articles, no individual =
or disciplinary exceptions or=20
exemptions to the immediate-deposit are needed, but embargo length can =
be=20
adapted to the discipline or even to exceptional individual cases.
<br>&gt;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Embargo length is 
even more =
important for open data, and should be=20
carefully and flexibly adapted to the needs not only of disciplines and=20=

individuals, but of each individual research project.
<br>&gt;=20

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Requiring monograph 
OA if the author =
does not wish to provide it is=20
not reasonable, but perhaps many or most monograph authors would not =
mind=20
depositing their texts as Closed=20
Access.</em>

<br>&gt; <span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font 
color=3D"#888888">
<br>&gt;=20

--
<br>&gt;=20

To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:
<br>&gt;=20

<a target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f">http://www.soros.or=
g/openaccess/forum.shtml?f</a>
<br>&gt;=20

<br>&gt; </font></span></blockquote><span 
class=3D"HOEnZb"><font =
color=3D"#888888">
<br>&gt; </font></span><span 
class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<br>&gt; -- &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<br>&gt; To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form=20
on this page:
<br>&gt; <a target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f">http://www.soros.or=
g/openaccess/forum.shtml?f</a>
<br>&gt;=20
</font></span></blockquote>

<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;=20

--
<br>&gt;=20

To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:
<br>&gt;=20

<a target=3D"_blank" =
href=3D"http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f">http://www.soros.or=
g/openaccess/forum.shtml?f</a>
<br>&gt;=20

<br>&gt;=20
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
=
<br>----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------=20

<br>
Andras Holl / Holl Andras &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 
&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;
e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:holl AT konkoly.hu">holl AT 
konkoly.hu</a>=20

<br>
Konkoly Observatory / MTA CsFK CsI &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tel.: +36 1 
=
3919368 Fax:=20
+36 1 2754668=20

<br>
IT manager / Szamitastechn. rendszervez. Mail: H1525 POBox 67, Budapest, =
Hungary=20

<br>
=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------=20

<br>

<br>
</font>
</div>


=
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ml>=

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