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[GOAL] Re: [BOAI] Re: Harnad Comments on Proposed HEFCE/REF Green Open Access Mandate

From: Nick Thieberger <thien AT unimelb.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:47:27 +1100


Threading: [BOAI] Harnad Comments on Proposed HEFCE/REF Green Open Access Mandate from amsciforum AT gmail.com
      • This Message

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Steven,

Our example is of a small OA journal, now in its seventh year. We have
pioneered publishing primary language material to accompany linguistic
articles and locate all our collection in a DSpace repository with handles.
Our funding is scraped together and covers student GAships for copy-editing
and page layout of articles. Our reach is excellent and can always be
improved, but we use download statistics to emulate an impact factor. In
your model, author download statistics will be split between the OA
journal's site and the home institution's repository. My University
repository allows us to have a full citation that points to the OA article
in the originating journal's repository and that would seem to be a good
outcome for both your mandating institution and the struggling OA journal
that needs to justify itself to its funders. I'm sorry that you think that
an OA journal that is doing its best to keep producing free OA output is
acting as a publisher with a 'publishers' importunate nonsense'.

Nick Thieberger


On 15 March 2013 08:00, Stevan Harnad <harnad AT ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

>
> On 2013-03-14, at 1:13 AM, Nick Thieberger <thien AT unimelb.edu.au> 
wrote:
>
> But what if the article is in an OA journal that would like to have the
> hit count for
>
> downloads from its site? Is there scope for the mandate to cover only
> non-OA
>
> journal articles perhaps?
>
>
> That would be an exceedingly bad solution, for authors, for their
> institutions
> for their research and for OA.
>
> And institutions would lose a simple, natural, powerful and uniform way t=
o
> monitor
> mandate compliance by their authors.
>
> And what's more important: hit/download counts for authors, for their own
> articles,
> and for their institutions, or hit/download counts for publishers' sites?
>
> But in any case there's a simple (though silly) compromise:
>
> All articles (whether subscription or Gold, emargoed or not) must be
> immediately
> deposited in the author's institutional repository.
>
> Where the author either wishes to comply with a non-OA publisher's embarg=
o
> on Green OA, or with a Gold-OA publisher's desire to have hit/download
> counts
> for its site, access to the deposit need not be made OA (until the embarg=
o
> elapses or until the author tires of accommodating publishers' importunat=
e
> nonsense).
>
> Stevan Harnad
>
>
> Nick Thieberger
> Editor
> Language Documentation & Conservation Journal
> http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/
>
>
> On 14 March 2013 11:16, Stevan Harnad <amsciforum AT gmail.com> 
wrote:
>
>> Full Text: http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archives/994-.html
>>
>> *Executive Summary:* *The proposed HEFCE/REF Open Access [OA] 
mandate<ht=
tp://www.hefce.ac.uk/media/hefce/content/news/news/2013/open_access_letter.=
pdf> --
>> that in order to be eligible for REF, the peer-reviewed final draft of 
a=
ll
>> journal articles must be deposited in the author=E2=80=99s 
institutional=
 repository
>> immediately upon publication, with embargoes applicable only to the 
date=
 at
>> which the article must be made OA =E2=80=93 is excellent, and provides 
e=
xactly
>> the sort of complement required by the RCUK OA mandate. It ensures 
that
>> authors deposit immediately and institutionally and it recruits their
>> institutions to monitor and ensure compliance.
>>       For journal articles, no individual or disciplinary exceptions 
or
>> exemptions to the immediate-deposit are needed, but embargo length can 
b=
e
>> adapted to the discipline or even to exceptional individual cases.
>>       Embargo length is even more important for open data, and should 
be
>> carefully and flexibly adapted to the needs not only of disciplines 
and
>> individuals, but of each individual research project.
>>       Requiring monograph OA if the author does not wish to provide it 
i=
s
>> not reasonable, but perhaps many or most monograph authors would not 
min=
d
>> depositing their texts as Closed Access.*
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:
>> http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f
>>
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:
> http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from the BOAI Forum, use the form on this page:
> http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtml?f
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>

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<div 
dir=3D"ltr">Steven,<div><br></div><div>Our 
example is of a small OA jo=
urnal, now in its seventh year. We have pioneered publishing primary langua=
ge material to accompany linguistic articles and locate all our collection =
in a DSpace repository with handles. Our funding is scraped together and co=
vers student GAships for copy-editing and page layout of articles. Our reac=
h is excellent and can always be improved, but we use download statistics t=
o emulate an impact factor. In your model, author download statistics will =
be split between the OA journal&#39;s site and the home 
institution&#39;s r=
epository. My University repository allows us to have a full citation that =
points to the OA article in the originating journal&#39;s repository and 
th=
at would seem to be a good outcome for both your mandating institution and =
the struggling OA journal that needs to justify itself to its funders. 
I&#3=
9;m sorry that you think that an OA journal that is doing its best to keep =
producing free OA output is acting as a publisher with a &#39;<span 
style=
=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">publishers&#39; importunat=
e=C2=A0</span><span 
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">n=
onsense&#39;.</span><div>

<span 
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></di=
v><div style><span 
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Ni=
ck Thieberger</span></div></div></div><div 
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">

On 15 March 2013 08:00, Stevan Harnad <span 
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:harnad AT ecs.soton.ac.uk" target=3D"_blank">harnad AT 
ecs.soton.ac.uk</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" 
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div 
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><div>On 
2013-03-14, at 1:13 AM=
, Nick Thieberger &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:thien AT 
unimelb.edu.au" target=3D"_bl=
ank">thien AT unimelb.edu.au</a>&gt; 
wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div dir=3D"ltr">

But what if the article is in an OA journal that would like to have the hit=
 count for</div></blockquote><blockquote 
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">dow=
nloads from its site? Is there scope for the mandate to cover only non-OA</=
div>

</blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div 
dir=3D"ltr">journal articles pe=
rhaps?</div></blockquote><div><br></div>That 
would be an exceedingly bad so=
lution, for authors, for their institutions</div><div>for their 
research an=
d for OA.</div>

<div><br></div><div>And institutions would lose a 
simple, natural, powerful=
 and uniform way to monitor</div><div>mandate compliance by their 
authors.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>And what&#39;s more 
important: hit/download counts=
 for authors, for their own articles,</div>

<div>and for their institutions, or=C2=A0hit/download counts 
for=C2=A0publi=
shers&#39; 
sites?</div><div><br></div><div>But in any case 
there&#39;s a si=
mple (though silly) 
compromise:</div><div><br></div><div>All articles 
(whet=
her subscription or Gold, emargoed or not) must be immediately</div>

<div>deposited in the author&#39;s institutional 
repository.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Where the author either wishes to comply with a non-OA 
publisher=
&#39;s embargo</div><div>on Green OA, or with a Gold-OA 
publisher&#39;s des=
ire to have=C2=A0hit/download counts</div>

<div>for its site, access to the deposit need not be made OA (until the 
emb=
argo</div><div>elapses or until the author tires of accommodating 
publisher=
s&#39; 
importunate</div><div>nonsense).</div><div><br></div><div>Stevan Har=
nad</div>

<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div 
dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>

<div>Nick 
Thieberger</div><div>Editor</div><div>Language 
Documentation &amp=
; Conservation Journal</div><div><a 
href=3D"http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc=
/" 
target=3D"_blank">http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu/ldc/</a></div></div></div>

<div class=3D"gmail_extra">

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 14 March 2013 
11:16, Stevan Harnad <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:amsciforum AT 
gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">amsciforum AT gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> 
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc 
solid;padding-left:=
1ex">



Full Text:=C2=A0<a 
href=3D"http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/archive=
s/994-.html" 
target=3D"_blank">http://openaccess.eprints.org/index.php?/arc=
hives/994-.html</a><div><br><div><strong 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-=
size:13px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Executive 
Summary=
:</strong><span 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:13px;font-family:ver=
dana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><em 
style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,=
51);font-size:13px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The=C2=
=A0<a 
href=3D"http://www.hefce.ac.uk/media/hefce/content/news/news/2013/ope=
n_access_letter.pdf" style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,102)" 
target=3D"_blank">propos=
ed HEFCE/REF Open Access [OA] mandate</a>=C2=A0-- that in order to be 
eligi=
ble for REF, the peer-reviewed final draft of all journal articles must be =
deposited in the author=E2=80=99s institutional repository immediately upon=
 publication, with embargoes applicable only to the date at which the artic=
le must be made OA =E2=80=93 is excellent, and=C2=A0<em>provides exactly 
th=
e sort of complement required by the RCUK OA mandate</em>. It ensures 
that =
authors deposit immediately and institutionally and it recruits their insti=
tutions to monitor and ensure compliance.<br>




=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0For journal articles, no individual or =
disciplinary exceptions or exemptions to the immediate-deposit are needed, =
but embargo length can be adapted to the discipline or even to exceptional =
individual cases.<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Embargo length 
is =
even more important for open data, and should be carefully and flexibly ada=
pted to the needs not only of disciplines and individuals, but of each indi=
vidual research project.<br>




=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Requiring monograph OA if the author do=
es not wish to provide it is not reasonable, but perhaps many or most monog=
raph authors would not mind depositing their texts as Closed 
Access.</em></=
div></div>
<br><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font 
color=3D"#888888"><br>
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<br></font></span></blockquote></div><span 
class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"=
#888888"><br></font></span></div><span 
class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888=
888">
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BOAI Forum=
, use the form on this page:<br><a 
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.soros.org/openaccess/forum.shtm=
l?f</a><br></font></span></blockquote>

</div><br></div><br><br>
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