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[BOAI] On archiving

From: holl AT konkoly.hu (Andras Holl)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:31:11 +0200 (MEST)


Threading:      • This Message
             Re: [BOAI] On archiving from nick.thieberger AT gmail.com
             Re: [BOAI] On archiving & Mirroring by Third Parties from luis.ibanez AT kitware.com
             Re: [BOAI] On archiving from machado AT sociologia.de
             [BOAI] Re: On archiving & Mirroring of Journals by Third Parties from luis.ibanez AT kitware.com
             [BOAI] Re: On archiving & Mirroring of Journals by Third Parties from luis.ibanez AT kitware.com
             Re: [BOAI] On archiving from fotis AT mail.cern.ch
             Re: [BOAI] On archiving from nick.thieberger AT gmail.com
             RE: [BOAI] Re: On archiving & Mirroring of Journals by Third Parties - Attribution from dennis.hamilton AT acm.org
             Re: [BOAI] Re: On archiving & Mirroring of Journals by Third Parties - Attribution from luis.ibanez AT kitware.com
             RE: [BOAI] Re: On archiving & Mirroring of Journals by Third Parties - Attribution from dennis.hamilton AT acm.org
             RE: [BOAI] Re: On archiving & Mirroring of Journals by Third Parties - Attribution from dsolomon AT msu.edu


Hi Luis,

>    Legally you, as a Jornal publisher, don't have any right to
>    prevent somebody from creating an archive of your Journal.
>    If that were the case, then I would have to burn my Science
>    journal after I read them, because by stacking them in my
>    bookshelf I'm creating an archive.
>
>    "Archiving" is not one of the exclusive rights for which the
>    state granted you a limited-time monopoly under copyright laws.

First of all, while apparently I am not legally correct, my objections
were not legal.

And I think the case of the electronic journals should be different.
Could a library archive the full content of a subscribed
electronic journal? I would be glad to have that right.
But, such kind of archiving is local, and I have no objection to
that. The kind of archiving in question, I feel, is different.
It would involve eventual redistribution. 


>    Some of them related to your concern for the integrity of
>    the information, and some of them related for some (surprising)
>    desire to excert control over the information.

While we charge no fee for the access of our journal, we have to
demonstrate to our funding agencies that their money is well spent.
We think it is best achieved if the whole journal is kept on our
site, and everyone has to donwload it from us. Meanwhile we take
care of the availability and accessibility.


>    "I would not like a party starting to archive all of
>     my PDF files without my knowledge."

>    I'm asking myself:  Why ?

It is purely technical. It would overload our server. I do not see
why should I buy a server twice as expensive, while already providing
a service for the community.

>    Why is your concern when some other organization
>    redistribute your PDF files ?

I have already explained my problems with redistribution.

>    You cannot adopt Open Access and still be obsessed with
>    controlling content. That is to be left to organizations
>    that still live with 20th century mentality, such as the
>    MPAA and the RIAA.

>    Are you going to bring lawsuits to students who decide
>    to redistribute your journal ?

I have nothing against redistribution of any individual paper
(including groups of papers), An author could deposit his/her
paper in a repository, put it on his/her website. A research
group could do the same with the papers they authored.
Organizations publish their proceedings in our journal, and
re-distribute it in their own newsletter. Universities
archive papers published by their staff and students in our
journal. All of that is all right. What I am against is redistributing
the whole journal. It has never happened that a student wanted
to do that, and I can not imagine why any student would like to.


>    If the concern is quality of redistribution, then you simply
>    have to make sure that your own redistribution is the one
>    with the highest quality of service for readers.

In reality it is very confusing to readers that they can get the
- apparently, but not truly - same material from many different
sources. 

>    If it happens that some other organization can redistribute
>    your files better than you do, then you shouldn't be worry
>    about it, you should rather send them an email with a
>    *Thank You* note.

It has happened that organizations at a certain time could
redistribute our content better, than us, and I was  happy with
that. It has also happened, that in one of such cases, the
mirroring/translation process went wild (the automatism was
not maintained any longer because people responsible left
that institution), and for months garbage content was displayed.


>    I think you must rethink your mission.

I think I have thought about my mission quite a lot.

>    Are you publishing a Journal in order

>      a) to gain reputation ?
>      b) bring attention to your web site ?
>      c) advance the progress of a field ?

>   If the answer is (c), then redistribution by third parties
>   should simply make you happy.

The answer is all three, and some more too. Publishers of
OpenAccess journals desire some reputation, and attention to
their website might help them to provide services for free.

With best regards,

Andras Holl


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